Dogs may develop the behaviour of barking to biting when they feel frustrated and their drives are not properly addressed. This behaviour can have various underlying causes, but it is often associated with fear or frustration. For instance, if a dog is barking at a person or another animal and feels unheard or misunderstood, it may resort to biting to communicate its message.

Socialising the dog and ensuring it has positive interactions with people and animals can help. Additionally, training the dog to respond to verbal commands and having a solid recall can redirect its attention and prevent it from escalating to biting.

Another helpful technique in dog training is premacking behaviour, which was first introduced by psychologist David Premack. Specifically, this technique involves using a high-probability behavior to reinforce a low-probability behaviour.

For example, if a dog loves playing fetch but dislikes going for walks, using premacking behaviour can increase its motivation to go for walks. Rewarding it with a game of fetch after a walk can help associate the walk with a positive outcome.

Using premacking behaviour correctly in dog training is essential. Firstly, the high-probability behaviour should always be something that the dog finds enjoyable. Additionally, the low-probability behaviour should be something that the dog needs to do to receive the reward.

Check out this episode about coping with being bitten

Further details

looking for great dog trainers and supporters of the canine paradigm? Below is a vast array of people and business’s who stand by us, donate to our running costs and do great things for the canine community.

Glenn runs and has almost everything canine related at, Canine Evolution or Pet Resorts Australia

Pat has a full range of coaching and dog training services at Operant Canine

You can support our show and get extra content right here on our Patreon page. Everything goes into keeping the show running and we love all the wonderful people who are part of that community. If you’re not sure how, just ask us.

You can get our full range of our Merch at our Teespring store here

You can help us by spreading the word amongst the canine community or even suggesting a special guest to interview.

If you need to find out how to listen to our podcast, go here

We have a YOUTUBE channel that you can subscribe to now

If you enjoyed the podcast, please review us on Itunes, spotify and any other podcast directory

Details on joining the IACP can be found here. If you’re not in it you should be! Understand?

Check out Dogs Playing for Life! A rescue process changing dogs lives across the USA

For more details on how to help our friends at Peggy’s Promise, you can find all the details on how to do that on their website. They are our rescue charity of choice.

Support our supporters

Narelle Cooke’s raw feeding guide for dogs here. Narelle has her own podcast on all podcast directories called Natural Health for people and pets. Check it out in person.

Looking for the best, human grade supplement range for your dogs? Check out Canine Ceuticals SHOW SPONSOR

Jason Firmin Einzweck Dog quip SHOW SPONSOR

The motorcycle dog kennel by Rowdy Hound SHOW SPONSOR

Professional dog training services DanKroft K9 SHOW SPONSOR

Our beloved friend and regular contributor, Birdy O’Sheedy can be found at birdyosheedy.com and you can see her baby puppy on her instagram

HUGE thanks to all our contributing artists. Please support their works

Jane Stuart
Avery Keller
Zoie Neidy

Ambition is a powerful motivator and can drive us to achieve great things. However, when it comes to dog training, it is important to not let your ambitions get mixed up with your capabilities, especially when working with aggressive dogs.

Working with aggressive dogs can be a daunting task, but with the right approach and mindset, it is possible to help these dogs overcome their behaviour issues and lead happy and fulfilling lives. However, it is important to set realistic goals and to not let your ambitions cloud your judgement or put yourself or others in danger.

One of the most common mistakes that dog trainers make when working with aggressive dogs is to have unrealistic expectations. Aggressive behaviour is not something that can be fixed overnight, and it is important to recognize that progress may be slow and incremental. Pushing the dog too far too fast can be counter-productive and can actually make the aggressive behaviour worse.

We did an episode some time back called, Get comfortable saying No. Check it out

Further details

looking for great dog trainers and supporters of the canine paradigm? Below is a vast array of people and business’s who stand by us, donate to our running costs and do great things for the canine community.

Glenn runs and has almost everything canine related at, Canine Evolution or Pet Resorts Australia

Pat has a full range of coaching and dog training services at Operant Canine

You can support our show and get extra content right here on our Patreon page. Everything goes into keeping the show running and we love all the wonderful people who are part of that community. If you’re not sure how, just ask us.

You can get our full range of our Merch at our Teespring store here

You can help us by spreading the word amongst the canine community or even suggesting a special guest to interview.

If you need to find out how to listen to our podcast, go here

We have a YOUTUBE channel that you can subscribe to now

If you enjoyed the podcast, please review us on Itunes, spotify and any other podcast directory

Details on joining the IACP can be found here. If you’re not in it you should be! Understand?

Check out Dogs Playing for Life! A rescue process changing dogs lives across the USA

For more details on how to help our friends at Peggy’s Promise, you can find all the details on how to do that on their website. They are our rescue charity of choice.

Support our supporters

Narelle Cooke’s raw feeding guide for dogs here. Narelle has her own podcast on all podcast directories called Natural Health for people and pets. Check it out in person.

Looking for the best, human grade supplement range for your dogs? Check out Canine Ceuticals SHOW SPONSOR

Jason Firmin Einzweck Dog quip SHOW SPONSOR

The motorcycle dog kennel by Rowdy Hound SHOW SPONSOR

Professional dog training services DanKroft K9 SHOW SPONSOR

Our beloved friend and regular contributor, Birdy O’Sheedy can be found at birdyosheedy.com and you can see her baby puppy on her instagram

HUGE thanks to all our contributing artists. Please support their works

Jane Stuart
Avery Keller
Zoie Neidy

In this episode, we were thrilled to offer more in-depth responses to the queries of our esteemed audience members, who participated in the TCP discussion group and made their voices heard.

One of our audience members, George Nicholas, posed a thought-provoking question regarding the reliability of clients when it comes to using E-collars, even after being trained on their usage.

Additionally, Tracy Racich wondered about the individuals in the dog training industry who seem to possess an innate connection with canines.

Finally, Charlotte Merz inquired about the best practices for selecting the right breeder for a competitive bite-sport dog.

We love hearing from our TCP audience and it started all the way back in this episode Episode 42: Questions from our audience Part 1

Further details

looking for great dog trainers and supporters of the canine paradigm? Below is a vast array of people and business’s who stand by us, donate to our running costs and do great things for the canine community.

Glenn runs and has almost everything canine related at, Canine Evolution or Pet Resorts Australia

Pat has a full range of coaching and dog training services at Operant Canine

You can support our show and get extra content right here on our Patreon page. Everything goes into keeping the show running and we love all the wonderful people who are part of that community. If you’re not sure how, just ask us.

You can get our full range of our Merch at our Teespring store here

You can help us by spreading the word amongst the canine community or even suggesting a special guest to interview.

If you need to find out how to listen to our podcast, go here

We have a YOUTUBE channel that you can subscribe to now

If you enjoyed the podcast, please review us on Itunes, spotify and any other podcast directory

Details on joining the IACP can be found here. If you’re not in it you should be! Understand?

Check out Dogs Playing for Life! A rescue process changing dogs lives across the USA

For more details on how to help our friends at Peggy’s Promise, you can find all the details on how to do that on their website. They are our rescue charity of choice.

Support our supporters

Narelle Cooke’s raw feeding guide for dogs here. Narelle has her own podcast on all podcast directories called Natural Health for people and pets. Check it out in person.

Looking for the best, human grade supplement range for your dogs? Check out Canine Ceuticals SHOW SPONSOR

Jason Firmin Einzweck Dog quip SHOW SPONSOR

The motorcycle dog kennel by Rowdy Hound SHOW SPONSOR

Professional dog training services DanKroft K9 SHOW SPONSOR

Our beloved friend and regular contributor, Birdy O’Sheedy can be found at birdyosheedy.com and you can see her baby puppy on her instagram

HUGE thanks to all our contributing artists. Please support their works

Jane Stuart
Avery Keller
Zoie Neidy

As a dog trainer, you have a crucial role in helping dogs and their owners resolve behaviour issues. To be successful, it is vital to have answers to life’s questions, particularly when it comes to markers, cues, and primary reinforcer’s.

First, you need to understand what the dog’s behaviour problem is. Is the dog aggressive, destructive, or fearful? Once you have identified the problem, you must determine its root cause. This could be lack of exercise, insufficient attention, or a medical condition. With this information, you can create a plan to have answers to the problem.

Next, you must choose the right technique to modify the behaviour. Positive reinforcement, counter-conditioning, and behaviour modification are just a few of the methods available. You must understand these techniques and select the one that best fits each situation.

It is also crucial to know how to teach the new behaviour. What steps should you take and how will you reinforce the behaviour so it becomes a habit? The answers to these questions will guide you in your training efforts.

Markers, cues, and primary reinforcer’s play a significant role in dog training. Markers are signals, such as a clicker or a sound, that signal to the dog that a behaviour is correct. Cues are commands that tell the dog what to do. Primary reinforcer’s, such as food or toys, provide motivation for the dog to perform the desired behaviour.

Having answers to life’s questions is essential for dog trainers. Knowing the behaviour problem, the right technique to modify it, how to teach the new behaviour, and the importance of markers, cues, and primary reinforcer’s, will help you be more effective and make a positive impact on the lives of dogs and their owners.

We did another episode on all life’s answers right here

Further details

looking for great dog trainers and supporters of the canine paradigm? Below is a vast array of people and business’s who stand by us, donate to our running costs and do great things for the canine community.

Glenn runs and has almost everything canine related at, Canine Evolution or Pet Resorts Australia

Pat has a full range of coaching and dog training services at Operant Canine

You can support our show and get extra content right here on our Patreon page. Everything goes into keeping the show running and we love all the wonderful people who are part of that community. If you’re not sure how, just ask us.

You can get our full range of our Merch at our Teespring store here

You can help us by spreading the word amongst the canine community or even suggesting a special guest to interview.

If you need to find out how to listen to our podcast, go here

We have a YOUTUBE channel that you can subscribe to now

If you enjoyed the podcast, please review us on Itunes, spotify and any other podcast directory

Details on joining the IACP can be found here. If you’re not in it you should be! Understand?

Check out Dogs Playing for Life! A rescue process changing dogs lives across the USA

For more details on how to help our friends at Peggy’s Promise, you can find all the details on how to do that on their website. They are our rescue charity of choice.

Support our supporters

Narelle Cooke’s raw feeding guide for dogs here. Narelle has her own podcast on all podcast directories called Natural Health for people and pets. Check it out in person.

Looking for the best, human grade supplement range for your dogs? Check out Canine Ceuticals SHOW SPONSOR

Jason Firmin Einzweck Dog quip SHOW SPONSOR

The motorcycle dog kennel by Rowdy Hound SHOW SPONSOR

Professional dog training services DanKroft K9 SHOW SPONSOR

Our beloved friend and regular contributor, Birdy O’Sheedy can be found at birdyosheedy.com and you can see her baby puppy on her instagram

HUGE thanks to all our contributing artists. Please support their works

Jane Stuart
Avery Keller
Zoie Neidy

A mentor can change your life by providing guidance, advice, and support. They can help you identify and set goals, develop new skills, and navigate challenges and obstacles. They can also serve as a role model and provide valuable perspective and insight. Additionally, a mentor can help you build a professional network and open doors to new opportunities.

Mentors can provide valuable life advice. They can help you set and achieve personal and professional goals, and also provide you with a sounding board for your ideas and thoughts. They can also help you navigate difficult situations, give you honest feedback, and help you develop the skills and knowledge you need to succeed. A mentor can provide you with valuable connections in your field. Overall, having a mentor can help you grow both personally and professionally, and can have a significant impact on your life.

Check out this old chestnut from a wonderful industry mentor, Dr Roger Abrantes

Further details

looking for great dog trainers and supporters of the canine paradigm? Below is a vast array of people and business’s who stand by us, donate to our running costs and do great things for the canine community.

Glenn runs and has almost everything canine related at, Canine Evolution or Pet Resorts Australia

Pat has a full range of coaching and dog training services at Operant Canine

You can support our show and get extra content right here on our Patreon page. Everything goes into keeping the show running and we love all the wonderful people who are part of that community. If you’re not sure how, just ask us.

You can get our full range of our Merch at our Teespring store here

You can help us by spreading the word amongst the canine community or even suggesting a special guest to interview.

If you need to find out how to listen to our podcast, go here

We have a YOUTUBE channel that you can subscribe to now

If you enjoyed the podcast, please review us on Itunes, spotify and any other podcast directory

Details on joining the IACP can be found here. If you’re not in it you should be! Understand?

Check out Dogs Playing for Life! A rescue process changing dogs lives across the USA

For more details on how to help our friends at Peggy’s Promise, you can find all the details on how to do that on their website. They are our rescue charity of choice.

Support our supporters

Narelle Cooke’s raw feeding guide for dogs here. Narelle has her own podcast on all podcast directories called Natural Health for people and pets. Check it out in person.

Looking for the best, human grade supplement range for your dogs? Check out Canine Ceuticals SHOW SPONSOR

Jason Firmin Einzweck Dog quip SHOW SPONSOR

The motorcycle dog kennel by Rowdy Hound SHOW SPONSOR

Professional dog training services DanKroft K9 SHOW SPONSOR

Our beloved friend and regular contributor, Birdy O’Sheedy can be found at birdyosheedy.com and you can see her baby puppy on her instagram

HUGE thanks to all our contributing artists. Please support their works

Jane Stuart
Avery Keller
Zoie Neidy

How trainers make you see their content is an enlightening discussion as Pat shares his experiences working within a marketing company. During that time, he reveals the strategy that social media algorithms use to encourage more views and longer time spent on the page.

This is why we see trainers stepping outside their profession and spending more time being a performer than a trainer and making outrageous content. Many of them are addicted to the likes and the engagement stats and will almost do anything to get that next big rise.

So even if you don’t like them or don’t agree with them, they wrote that content to get you to come back and engage and because you did, they get the numbers and the dopamine hit.

We have discussed similar topics around this in previous episodes such as, arguing with an avatar

Further details

looking for great dog trainers and supporters of the canine paradigm? Below is a vast array of people and business’s who stand by us, donate to our running costs and do great things for the canine community.

Glenn runs and has almost everything canine related at, Canine Evolution or Pet Resorts Australia

Pat has a full range of coaching and dog training services at Operant Canine

You can support our show and get extra content right here on our Patreon page. Everything goes into keeping the show running and we love all the wonderful people who are part of that community. If you’re not sure how, just ask us.

You can get our full range of our Merch at our Teespring store here

You can help us by spreading the word amongst the canine community or even suggesting a special guest to interview.

If you need to find out how to listen to our podcast, go here

We have a YOUTUBE channel that you can subscribe to now

If you enjoyed the podcast, please review us on Itunes, spotify and any other podcast directory

Details on joining the IACP can be found here. If you’re not in it you should be! Understand?

Check out Dogs Playing for Life! A rescue process changing dogs lives across the USA

For more details on how to help our friends at Peggy’s Promise, you can find all the details on how to do that on their website. They are our rescue charity of choice.

Support our supporters

Narelle Cooke’s raw feeding guide for dogs here. Narelle has her own podcast on all podcast directories called Natural Health for people and pets. Check it out in person.

Looking for the best, human grade supplement range for your dogs? Check out Canine Ceuticals SHOW SPONSOR

Jason Firmin Einzweck Dog quip SHOW SPONSOR

The motorcycle dog kennel by Rowdy Hound SHOW SPONSOR

Professional dog training services DanKroft K9 SHOW SPONSOR

Our beloved friend and regular contributor, Birdy O’Sheedy can be found at birdyosheedy.com and you can see her baby puppy on her instagram

HUGE thanks to all our contributing artists. Please support their works

Jane Stuart
Avery Keller
Zoie Neidy

The 2022 Dutch rudder circle jerk follows in the traditions of our end of the year wrap up. There have been many highs and some lows for many of our community which have been shared either through episodes, in our forum and in person.

we would like to thank all of the people in our community who made the year better and held each other up and supported each other. It’s also been great to see better people joining our circle and terrible people moving on.

The circle is growing and it gaining momentum. The people who have been joining our community have been adding so much value to the lives of many others. So many of you send a bunch of love and appreciation and we would like you to know it’s felt and it inspires us.

May the new year bring you opportunity and inspiration in the space you need it. Happy New Year to our TCP family.

If you want you recap last years circle jerk, here it is

Further details

looking for great dog trainers and supporters of the canine paradigm? Below is a vast array of people and business’s who stand by us, donate to our running costs and do great things for the canine community.

Glenn runs and has almost everything canine related at, Canine Evolution or Pet Resorts Australia

Pat has a full range of coaching and dog training services at Operant Canine

You can support our show and get extra content right here on our Patreon page. Everything goes into keeping the show running and we love all the wonderful people who are part of that community. If you’re not sure how, just ask us.

You can get our full range of our Merch at our Teespring store here

You can help us by spreading the word amongst the canine community or even suggesting a special guest to interview.

If you need to find out how to listen to our podcast, go here

We have a YOUTUBE channel that you can subscribe to now

If you enjoyed the podcast, please review us on Itunes, spotify and any other podcast directory

Details on joining the IACP can be found here. If you’re not in it you should be! Understand?

Check out Dogs Playing for Life! A rescue process changing dogs lives across the USA

For more details on how to help our friends at Peggy’s Promise, you can find all the details on how to do that on their website. They are our rescue charity of choice.

Support our supporters

Narelle Cooke’s raw feeding guide for dogs here. Narelle has her own podcast on all podcast directories called Natural Health for people and pets. Check it out in person.

Looking for the best, human grade supplement range for your dogs? Check out Canine Ceuticals SHOW SPONSOR

Jason Firmin Einzweck Dog quip SHOW SPONSOR

The motorcycle dog kennel by Rowdy Hound SHOW SPONSOR

Professional dog training services DanKroft K9 SHOW SPONSOR

Our beloved friend and regular contributor, Birdy O’Sheedy can be found at birdyosheedy.com and you can see her baby puppy on her instagram

HUGE thanks to all our contributing artists. Please support their works

Jane Stuart
Avery Keller
Zoie Neidy

Perfection is paralysis when you find yourself unable to take a leap at anything in life until it’s perfect. This is why we see so many younger people fail to launch as they feel whatever they do, must be perfect.

It really is disheartening to see paralysis prevent talent from taking form in the dog training industry. It’s worse to know that paralysis came from fear of letting their mentor down.

However, a new year is upon us and we are moving out of a very hard 3 years and hopefully towards greener pastures. You can do this. This is your year. Merry Christmas

We did another episode a while back called The ability to deal with pressure. Check it out

Further details

looking for great dog trainers and supporters of the canine paradigm? Below is a vast array of people and business’s who stand by us, donate to our running costs and do great things for the canine community.

Glenn runs and has almost everything canine related at, Canine Evolution or Pet Resorts Australia

Pat has a full range of coaching and dog training services at Operant Canine

You can support our show and get extra content right here on our Patreon page. Everything goes into keeping the show running and we love all the wonderful people who are part of that community. If you’re not sure how, just ask us.

You can get our full range of our Merch at our Teespring store here

You can help us by spreading the word amongst the canine community or even suggesting a special guest to interview.

If you need to find out how to listen to our podcast, go here

We have a YOUTUBE channel that you can subscribe to now

If you enjoyed the podcast, please review us on Itunes, spotify and any other podcast directory

Details on joining the IACP can be found here. If you’re not in it you should be! Understand?

Check out Dogs Playing for Life! A rescue process changing dogs lives across the USA

For more details on how to help our friends at Peggy’s Promise, you can find all the details on how to do that on their website. They are our rescue charity of choice.

Support our supporters

Narelle Cooke’s raw feeding guide for dogs here. Narelle has her own podcast on all podcast directories called Natural Health for people and pets. Check it out in person.

Looking for the best, human grade supplement range for your dogs? Check out Canine Ceuticals SHOW SPONSOR

Jason Firmin Einzweck Dog quip SHOW SPONSOR

The motorcycle dog kennel by Rowdy Hound SHOW SPONSOR

Professional dog training services DanKroft K9 SHOW SPONSOR

Our beloved friend and regular contributor, Birdy O’Sheedy can be found at birdyosheedy.com and you can see her baby puppy on her instagram

HUGE thanks to all our contributing artists. Please support their works

Jane Stuart
Avery Keller
Zoie Neidy

Real life problems with fictional solutions is how the world is working to solve some of the problems owners are having with dogs. Yes, we ranted in this episode as we can foresee a future that for many dogs was successful, will now not be. People who are upheld in the community are giving fictional advice while contradicting their own practices.

Trainers who misquote, mislead and misunderstand tools are continuing to create fictional headlines and beat up other trainers and owners who all see good results and have happy, healthy productive lives.

Cherry picked, sympathetic science is no longer a reliable place to seek non bias information when those very people are radical activists and report on their feelings and not observational facts.

“Death before discomfort” you squawk! I don’t believe you would choose that hypocritical option yourself. You’ll soon get your wishes now you have taken a reliable tool from the table and suitably mislabelled it to suit your grim narrative.

As we have known this is coming, we have done other predictive episodes on it called, A world without tools

Further details

looking for great dog trainers and supporters of the canine paradigm? Below is a vast array of people and business’s who stand by us, donate to our running costs and do great things for the canine community.

Glenn runs and has almost everything canine related at, Canine Evolution or Pet Resorts Australia

Pat has a full range of coaching and dog training services at Operant Canine

You can support our show and get extra content right here on our Patreon page. Everything goes into keeping the show running and we love all the wonderful people who are part of that community. If you’re not sure how, just ask us.

You can get our full range of our Merch at our Teespring store here

You can help us by spreading the word amongst the canine community or even suggesting a special guest to interview.

If you need to find out how to listen to our podcast, go here

We have a YOUTUBE channel that you can subscribe to now

If you enjoyed the podcast, please review us on Itunes, spotify and any other podcast directory

Details on joining the IACP can be found here. If you’re not in it you should be! Understand?

Check out Dogs Playing for Life! A rescue process changing dogs lives across the USA

For more details on how to help our friends at Peggy’s Promise, you can find all the details on how to do that on their website. They are our rescue charity of choice.

Support our supporters

Narelle Cooke’s raw feeding guide for dogs here. Narelle has her own podcast on all podcast directories called Natural Health for people and pets. Check it out in person.

Looking for the best, human grade supplement range for your dogs? Check out Canine Ceuticals SHOW SPONSOR

Jason Firmin Einzweck Dog quip SHOW SPONSOR

The motorcycle dog kennel by Rowdy Hound SHOW SPONSOR

Professional dog training services DanKroft K9 SHOW SPONSOR

Our beloved friend and regular contributor, Birdy O’Sheedy can be found at birdyosheedy.com and you can see her baby puppy on her instagram

HUGE thanks to all our contributing artists. Please support their works

Jane Stuart
Avery Keller
Zoie Neidy

You really don’t understand dogs at all when you appear to believe that training a dog is the same as training a marine mammal. Yes there are comparisons. Yes we have learned many great concepts from marine mammal trainers. However, if you still think it’s the same, then you most certainly don’t understand.

Furthermore, what people fail to understand is the implications that training tool bans are going to have on dogs. It’s frightening to know that some people’s ideal world is almost certainly going to be devastating for the dogs they say they care about.

Facts don’t care about feelings. Look with your eyes and not by what someone is screeching on social media forums, then hopefully you will understand.

We did another episode some time about marine mammals with Kim Greco

Further details

looking for great dog trainers and supporters of the canine paradigm? Below is a vast array of people and business’s who stand by us, donate to our running costs and do great things for the canine community.

Glenn runs and has almost everything canine related at, Canine Evolution or Pet Resorts Australia

Pat has a full range of coaching and dog training services at Operant Canine

You can support our show and get extra content right here on our Patreon page. Everything goes into keeping the show running and we love all the wonderful people who are part of that community. If you’re not sure how, just ask us.

You can get our full range of our Merch at our Teespring store here

You can help us by spreading the word amongst the canine community or even suggesting a special guest to interview.

If you need to find out how to listen to our podcast, go here

We have a YOUTUBE channel that you can subscribe to now

If you enjoyed the podcast, please review us on Itunes, spotify and any other podcast directory

Details on joining the IACP can be found here. If you’re not in it you should be! Understand?

Check out Dogs Playing for Life! A rescue process changing dogs lives across the USA

For more details on how to help our friends at Peggy’s Promise, you can find all the details on how to do that on their website. They are our rescue charity of choice.

Support our supporters

Narelle Cooke’s raw feeding guide for dogs here. Narelle has her own podcast on all podcast directories called Natural Health for people and pets. Check it out in person.

Looking for the best, human grade supplement range for your dogs? Check out Canine Ceuticals SHOW SPONSOR

Jason Firmin Einzweck Dog quip SHOW SPONSOR

The motorcycle dog kennel by Rowdy Hound SHOW SPONSOR

Professional dog training services DanKroft K9 SHOW SPONSOR

Our beloved friend and regular contributor, Birdy O’Sheedy can be found at birdyosheedy.com and you can see her baby puppy on her instagram

HUGE thanks to all our contributing artists. Please support their works

Jane Stuart
Avery Keller
Zoie Neidy